Posts by Chris Hannover

9

Toss a smart bomb

by Giordano in

i meet regularly for a bro lunch with a couple of friends of mine.

the conversation is usually first rate and free flowing.

one day we were talking about education and i mentioned that having been raised in a cult i had passed on college...... to pioneer.. .

Chris Hannover

For how you handled the conversation.

To how your friends responded.

to JWs.

19

World becoming more religious not less

by Stealth in

this is bad news for the evolution of humankind.

even worse, islam is the fastest growing religion.

http://www.livescience.com/50370-worlds-religious-population-will-grow.html?cmpid=nl_ls_weekly_2015-04-03 .

Talking with JW Elders possibly..

by bradford in

as i wrote in a previous post i have recently written a da letter to the elders and haven't heard anything in the way of an announcement, phone call, or visit since.

i called the elder the letter was personally written to yesterday and left a vm to call me back which he did this morning.

he said they did get it but were meaning to call me and possibly meet with me to try and see if there was anything they could do to encourage me because they of course find this very sad.

Chris Hannover

I would like to tell them I at least tried to reason with the elders and have open honest communication so they can see that I am not being unreasonable.

Ok, so you are wanting validation for your actions. You want them to know you aren't the bad guy, that you at least tried to keep a relationship. That's fair.

However, it never works with JWs. That was my point, no matter how hard you try to be reasonable, you are dealing with unreasonable rules and beliefs.

Is it reasonable to assume that clearly explaining your apostasy to JWs is going to make you the "good guy"?

Also, you have seriously limited your friend's options by DAing yourself. No matter how great they are as people, you have tied their hands as JWs.

If you wished to discuss your doubts over bourbon, does sending a DA letter first help accomplish that goal?

You want to be completely out of the religion and also completely accepted by JW friends and family. While I can completely sympathize with your desire, it is unreasonable considering the circumstances.

This thread isnt about me. My actions and my motives are very different from yours.

13

Talking with JW Elders possibly..

by bradford in

as i wrote in a previous post i have recently written a da letter to the elders and haven't heard anything in the way of an announcement, phone call, or visit since.

i called the elder the letter was personally written to yesterday and left a vm to call me back which he did this morning.

he said they did get it but were meaning to call me and possibly meet with me to try and see if there was anything they could do to encourage me because they of course find this very sad.

Chris Hannover

If you dont want to be a JW, why are you so concerned with following JW procedure?

Isn't writing a letter enough closure?

If you are hoping for their acceptance of you as a person, on your terms, you will be disappointed.

If you want to explain yourself and are expecting honest, fair consideration of what you say, the simple act of leaving a religion will drag into personal frustration and a long term need for validation. They dont care, but it has nothing to do with you.

You've already DA yourself, just walk away. Leave them alone and never discuss religion with them again. You will be healthier and save yourself a lot of time and frustration.

67

How do you feel about religion as a whole?

by FatherFirst in

it just seems to me religion in general primarily makes truly bad people worse, not genuinly good people better; and in many cases has even made good people do bad things in the name of their religion.

just curious, a personal poll if you will.

what are you guys' current views on religion as a whole?

Chris Hannover

I'll admit religion does produce simple rules for getting along with one another on a basic level, not always emotionally healthy, but usually effective. Since the overwhelming majority of people are drones, they need simple rules and egocentric delusions that give purpose and value to their repetitive lives.

While some religions get carried away, for the most part, it does an effective job at pacifying the masses.

If the average person realized what truly rational people were saying, they would collapse into a depression and stop producing & reproducing (their evolutionary purpose). They simply do not have the mental architecture to handle a non-egocentric reality.

The delusional person fights hard against obvious rational ideas because, at some level, they now the high price of consciously admitting their true place in the universe. Think of Douglas Adam's Total Perspective Vortex from Hitchhiker's Guide, "The prospective victim of the TPV is placed within a small chamber wherein is displayed a model of the entire universe - together with a microscopic dot bearing the legend 'you are here'. The sense of perspective thereby conveyed destroys the victim's mind; it was stated that the TPV is the only known means of crushing a man's soul."

If the goal of evolution is survival, and having multiple levels of mindless redundancy is an effective means of accomplishing survival, then why are we trying to wake the sheep?

Maybe we are taking this religion thing too personally and not realizing the reason it is so unquestioningly successful is that it is serving a massive evolutionary requirement. So far, nothing has been able to replace religion's effectiveness at pacifying and giving purpose.

Unfortunately, modern technology combined with religious fanaticism is now threatening humanity. But attacking personal religious narcissism isn't going to work, narcissism will always protect and justify itself.

The goal should be to replace the old opium with another more up to date drug of delusion. The addicts will always be addicts, but they can change addictions. Rather than fighting religion, we need to replace it with something equally self serving, but less destructive.

Obviously, to most people, rational thought and personal responsibility is pale compared to the drama and self glorification of religion. So rational thought will remain in the hands of the minority that appreciate its beauty.

However, for the sheep, we need a better mass delusion.

27

Ex-Christians being angry

by Jonathan Drake in

jw
friends

i know i'm angry.

i was curious if others are too.

i feel completely justified in my anger as well.

Chris Hannover

Atheism does not have an ambassador on this forum.
Neither does non-ornithology.

Good point, neither does not riding unicycles!

We need an ambassador for those who don't ride unicycles! We don't hate unicycles, we just don't ride them.

27

Ex-Christians being angry

by Jonathan Drake in

jw
friends

i know i'm angry.

i was curious if others are too.

i feel completely justified in my anger as well.

Chris Hannover

The WBTS would be powerless if individuals refused to behave abusively towards others. There would be no shunning, no supporting child abusers, and no sabotaging people's lives.

The power for good or evil lies in the hands of individuals, no matter their religion.

27

Ex-Christians being angry

by Jonathan Drake in

jw
friends

i know i'm angry.

i was curious if others are too.

i feel completely justified in my anger as well.

Chris Hannover

I identified a long time ago that any anger I felt was entirely at the religion itself, and its leaders. I have no gripe with individual JW's or with any JW Congregation.

I'm the exact opposite, it is the individuals that take the abusive actions, not a religion.

A decent person would never support child molestation, no matter their religion.

If an any person behaves abusively, they're an abusive person. That responsibility should not be shifted to their religion. No corporation is responsible for an individual's actions.

However, most people do find it is easier to blame the religion rather than taking action person to person. For every truly evil thing I have ever seen, their has been a handful of nice people making excuses why they did nothing. Blaming a religion is always one of the excuses.

43

Atheism

by Jonathan Drake in

jw
friends

recent events and book reads (one suggested by cofty i believe- thank you) have lead me to the only logical and acceptable conclusion:.

there is no god.. simple logical reasoning: matter can neither me created or destroyed.

so the amount of mass in the universe is constant.

Chris Hannover

27

Ex-Christians being angry

by Jonathan Drake in

jw
friends

i know i'm angry.

i was curious if others are too.

i feel completely justified in my anger as well.

Chris Hannover

I wonder if it is less anger and more suffocating frustration.

I was angry and/or frustrated because I still believed in their opinions on morality, good, and bad. Christian morality only supports victimhood, self shame, and condemns everything normal for humans. For example, money is bad, sex is bad, self esteem is bad, being a doormat is good, blindly doing what im told is good, being the victim is good, standing up for myself is bad, etc.

I was trying to be healthy, but every healthy move I made violated the backwards morals of Christians. Incredibly frustrating.

Only when I realized that their submission based morals were unhealthy did I start to move out of the anger. I am replacing the unhealthy, self loathing Christian morals with morals that appreciate anything that supports a healthy life.